Humanizing Leadership and Women’s Financial Empowerment

Wow. What an inspiring and heartfelt conversation that we just had with Meredith Parfait. Meredith's day job is the CEO of RavenYard Group, a boutique crisis management firm. And in what might be described as the weirdest side hustle ever, she works a few shifts a month as a humanist hospice chaplain.

She's also an investor, entrepreneur, board member, and philanthropist, and all while perpetually wrestling with the spiritual and material world. With that said, here's Meredith.

Hi there, and welcome to the Power Up Your Life podcast brought to you by GoBundance Women. I'm Kelly Resendez.

And I'm Mandy McAllister.

And holy moly. We are so excited to have just an amazing guest with us today. Meredith, thanks for being here. How are you? I'm great. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Well, we'd love to hear just a little bit about your background.

Okay. I stand at a very strange intersection in my background in that I am the CEO of a crisis management firm. So we do organizational crisis, fraud, scandal, like capital c crisis. But I am also a hospice chaplain and a death doula, which are unexpected perhaps. That intersection has been the place where I live for a very, very long time.

So I had a traditional business background, MBA, finance, and took a sharp left turn almost ten years ago when I had a business fail. And what came up for me was that it felt like grief, that I felt like I had lost something significant professionally within my identity. I just was so untethered.

And why that was important, that feeling of grief was grief had been an old faithful companion of mine. I had a number of early losses and had walked the path of trying to make sense of what does it mean to lose things, people, jobs, everything. And as a part of that journey, that was how I ended up working with the dying in hospice and how I then followed a path to become a death doula, which is basically a certificate program that teaches you how do we sit with the diet, and how do we how do we watch their journey and companion them on it, and what how do we help them make sense of what's happening? How do we do it ourselves?

So fast forward, I just kept going and going and going, and I still work a couple shifts a month as hospice chaplain. So I actually worked a shift this morning, and I worked a shift on Monday. So when I'm home, I I continue to do that work.

Oh my goodness. That is absolutely fascinating. So, you know, the one question that comes up for me right now because you are in such an amazing position to carry someone, you know, to the other side.

And we hear about people's regrets and and the things that they don't do in their life. And I think everyone that's listening, you know, when we think about how valuable time is, what has that really done for you as a as a female leader, as a mom, as a as a partner?

Has that given you, you know, greater motivation to live in the moment? Mhmm.

A 100. And you use the word regret. How often do we think we can put off conversations or put off doing something that matters or what we would call bucket list items? How often do we just push those into the future because we think we have so much time? And what I observe with the dying is that they always feel like maybe they didn't do enough or they left something unsaid.

The people with regret carry it very heavily. And so just my my PSA for all living, breathing humans is don't leave things unsaid. Don't don't waste the precious time to to love the people around you, to make them feel quite awkward when you tell them how much you love them. I tell people at work I love them. I tell and they're just like, why is she doing this? I'm like, I don't wanna regret not telling people how much they matter to me.

But you also the question of leadership, and chaplaincy has changed the way I lead. One of the things that it it has done is instead of the business brain where we think everything has to get fixed, right, we we make spreadsheets and we use frameworks and we think we're supposed to fix everything, sometimes there are things that can't be fixed. And so what's the mindset even at work if there's nothing to be done but just to walk with someone or to encourage them without trying to fix them? It it's a strange shift that changes how we relate to one another.

Oh, I love that. I another thing I've loved that you've talked about is the identity and how your identity was rocked by a business failure. This is a thing we talk a lot about in GoBundance Women because it's it's a lot of people who were had some success or or some epiphany that, you know, I need to make a big change in my life.

Like lots of doctors who are now real estate investors or I was a med device rep and now, you know, I get to to lean into entrepreneurship. It is such an identity change, and I think so much clarity is needed around that.

Talk to me a little bit about the clarity that how you find clarity when you don't feel clear and how that kinda ties into identity.

How often do we wake up in situations, in roles, where we don't know how we got there and we don't know why we're there? Or we switch because there's well, that door was open. I guess I just walked right through it. Okay.

Clarity comes with discernment. And interestingly, discernment in chaplaincy is this kind of old concept where you you take time to say, what am I here for? Why am I doing this? And in terms of actionable ways to do that, one of the key questions that I always ask is, what is my priority here? And it sounds kinda simple. Like, well, alright. But priorities are about trade offs. They're about I'm choosing this over something else.

And when we fix our mind on a clear priority so when I when my business blew up, I almost immediately said, I need to grow from this. I don't know why I thought that was, like, the best answer. It was painful and awful, but I maybe if I grow from this, it will be better. That priority was a guidepost when my life felt like it was in shambles because I was like, well, maybe I could grow.

And it became something where every day when I didn't know what to do next, I asked, am I supposed to learn something? Am I supposed to read something? Am I supposed to behave in a way with consciousness that maybe I wouldn't have done before? When we have these kind of priorities, that's how we get clarity.

Wow. No. That's that is amazing. And I think just stopping for a moment when you're going through those things and being able to have a process like that of getting clear on your priorities. I know in my life, that's also made a big difference.

So I'm gonna switch gears just a little bit over to the more of the crisis management part of what you're going through. I would imagine you're dealing with big ones, and a lot of us deal with micro ones on a daily basis. And what I know to be true is that a lot of times people can become avoidant when they're in a crisis.

What are some things, like, as as the people that are listening are going through a crisis, whether that's a business failing relationship or, you know, even a scandal, whatever that might be. Like, what are some of those steps that you guide through someone, you know, guide someone through to be able to get through it?

First of all, I always want to give people the grace that when I talk about crisis in a very buttoned up, you just have to do this and you have to do this, that's not how it lives. That there's a lot of time laying on the couch in your pajamas in the same clothes you've been wearing for days after days, and we have to give ourself room to just be human in it and to say this is messy.

I was with a hospice patient and their spouse this morning, and they kept saying, we just wanna get this right. And I said, how about you just get this human? You're doing the best you can. This is not an easy process. Like, step one, hand on heart, this is hard. It's okay for it to be hard. Like, there's no beautiful, tidy way to get through crisis.

When you come up with a moment of clarity, though, that's where having a priority makes a difference. And then one of the phrases that I use regularly is what's the next right thing? And it's interesting because it says what's next and what's right. When you have a catastrophic situation, sometimes the next right thing is I should probably get out of bed and brush my hair today. I should eat breakfast. Maybe if I went outside, it'd feel a little bit better.

There's no grand glorious kind of like, oh my gosh. I just I figured it out. So even when I say something like, oh, I chose growth, some days that growth was just to sit and say, wow, I'm really afraid. What what's the next right thing? What's the next right thing. Right. That there isn't, there isn't something tidy about it, but if we can anchor on these kind of basic ideas, then we move forward.

I love the idea of of being human and just the the feeling more than the doing. You know, the being more than the the doer. That you're humor human being, not a human doing. You know?

I I think that, you know, in the these crises, in your your personal, business stuff, like, you you probably noticed some patterns of mistakes. Tell me the biggest mistakes that you see people, doing that lead into these kind of big blow ups.

I use a a kind of pithy, very simple framework that sounds obvious, but when you're actually living it, it it doesn't show up that way. I define people as either barriers or detonators. And so, Kelly, you just said, oh, well, they tend to be avoidant. You might be giving me a clue there that you would be a barrier and that you would say, I'm gonna avoid these messy things because I do not wanna touch them.

Actually, I'm the opposite. I'm a, like, I'm gonna barf every bit of this on you, and you are gonna just have to hear about it. And that that awareness alone of how we show up differently means we give each other grace in this situation to be human.

Right? That if I say, I'm I'm a I'm a detonator. I'm just gonna I'm gonna blow things up right now. If I walk into a boardroom or I sit at the dinner table like that with no awareness, it actually is really harmful for relationships. It makes it extremely to to move forward with that idea of growth.

Similar with barriers, the conflict becomes, well, why aren't you emoting? Well, why don't you care about me? Well, why don't you tell me what's going on? And so the conflict arises with these different styles where we don't know how to relate to one another.

Yeah. No. And I think that's so important because number one, we have to admit that not everyone has an awareness Mhmm. as to whether they're a carrier or they're a detonator. And so some people are like yeah. And and I always look at the intention behind it. Like, I know that people don't tend to, you know, cause and inflict a lot of pain, but they do that, you know, just unintentionally. So just when we become aware of our own style, that does make it easier to be able to navigate and be able to see how other people are as well.

So you obviously haven't gotten where you are in your life without some unconventional, you know, ways of doing things. You know, we we know the way society kinda tells us, but, like, what are some unconventional, you know, whether beliefs, values, things that you have done in your life that have allowed you to get to this level of success?

I mean, probably the most obvious one is I sit with the dying on a regular basis. It's fairly unconventional and most people are like, wait, what? You do why? That reminder every week when I go into our inpatient unit, every time I sit with a patient, I'm gonna die. So I should live like that. I should wake up in the morning, think rather than run away from rather than deny it, I'm gonna lean in. I'm gonna remember that I'm gonna die.

And then and then you start asking yourself questions. Well, like, Mandy, you said something great when when we just got on. You said, well, this is gonna be fun. That enlivening kind of this is gonna be fun. You remember that a lot when you remember that you're gonna die. You take that approach to life to say, what is this grand experiment that we're in the middle of and what could come from it?

And so you'd begin to do things like, I don't know that it's anybody's natural state of being to wake up and say, we should do a podcast. But when you remember that you're alive to have these incredible experiences, then you say, oh, that that was kind of fun. Let's do that again. Yeah. Right? So that just just the remembering that that we are alive and it's a gift, even in the hardship of it, is pretty amazing.

When you realize life is finite, you are in awe of the simple things. And I I think the the one thing that I work really hard for for my kids is to show them the awe of the ordinary. Like, let's stop. Let's look at that sunset. Let's talk about how incredible it is that x y z has happened and that we all get to you know, like, that awe is underlined because life is finite.

I I think, you know, with your crisis management and and being so close to the dying all the time and being in leadership and philanthropy and entrepreneurship and all of those things, you know, talk to me about leadership, how all of these diverse understandings could, you know, actionable tips or something for all of our leaders listening out there.

Yeah. So you used a wonderful word that that really resonates with me, ordinary. So much leadership jargon is around authentic leadership and values leadership. And one of the things that that I've really been exploring as a leader is what does it mean to just be ordinary? That there's no exceptionalism to it.

And then if I just walk in as my kind of ordinary self that's like, I'm imperfect. I'm I'm flawed. I'm afraid of things. I do things in finicky ways. If I give myself permission to just be human, then what I do as a leader is humanize the people around me and walk into a boardroom and assume, even if it's the Hundredth Floor Marble office, that all of them are having a fairly ordinary human experience too, can I give them the grace to just be human?

Can I remember when a a person is being angry or or abrasive, that they are a compilation of all these different experiences and hardships and suffering, and I can just give them the room to do that and and hold brace for that? It has been the most transformative part of leadership for me is to humanize the people in the room. Even if all you're doing is presenting a PowerPoint deck and telling them a strategy, but to remember that they're all in there with this whole life that they bring with them, and they're just humans making bad choices, making good choices, doing what they do.

It it changed everything about how I lead. We're all just people doing our best. And and then Oh, that's I I don't know. Yeah. So ordinary. It it's this phenomenal term where you're like, just be ordinary and let other people be ordinary. Cool. Great.

Oh my goodness. So good. And I think so many of us, it it's not that complicated when you really it's an inside out job. Right? When you're a kind Mhmm. Just amazing human and you give people grace, like, everything falls into place.

But so many of us have expectations of other people that then lead to disappointment and and and really cause a lot of leadership challenges as well.

So if you had a magic wand, because let's let's be honest. Like, you're an absolute dynamo as a female leader, and we really don't have a lot of women out there when you look at the number of women leading companies like yours or whatnot. Like, if you had a magic wand, like, what do you think the secret is to getting more women empowered to be able to create the businesses that they want or the leadership level that they desire? What do you think it's gonna take?

Is it controversial to say dismantling the patriarchy? Let me No. Yeah. I don't know. Child care, health care? No. No. No.

I also think that there's part of that ordinariness is for women to help each other wholeheartedly for them to and, Kelly, I've seen you do this, that the first time we met, you were like, how do I open my Rolodex? Here are 14 emails of people I'm introing you to. I'm gonna jump through any hoop. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you to anyone you need. And it was like, woah. That was radical generosity from you that we often don't do for each other.

I was hiking with a friend of mine who is a mom, and she was carrying her baby. She's also a CEO. And so she was doing what CEO moms do. She was, like, carrying a baby, walking a dog, talking about her next private equity venture, and I was like, obviously. And her shoe was untied. And so I just squatted down, tied her shoes. You know? We should all be leaning down and tying each other's shoes.

We should all be Right. Opening up our Rolodex for each other. We should all be you know, your hair looks awesome today. And the more kind, generosity, ordinary, let's help every one of us together, the better we all are.

And it's funny because I I work inside a big one of our clients is a big private equity firm, and one of the women I work with said, I I don't know anyone who's willing to just help other women. And, like, isn't that part of our problem that that we should be spending so much time helping each other? And we don't we don't focus on that.

I say a lot, you get two arms for a reason. One to pull yourself up and one to pull other people up with you. Yes. And I think that it's incumbent on female leaders in our generation. The one before us, there was only one woman at the c suite. Right? And and if you weren't her, you kinda had to hate her because she got the one spot. Well, now there's not enough spots, but there are more. So it is on us to be cheerleading each other. I so fully believe it.

One one thing I wanna add to that too, Meredith, is I want that lady to ask for help to tie her shoe. Because one thing that we don't necessarily do super well is ask for help when we need it. To be really direct and I need this introduction to do x y z because that introduction changes the ballgame

for me and what I'm doing because I I think we all totally grow together. It's so true.

And and that again is that, like, when we think leadership is about being superhuman, we fall apart. When we think it's about being ordinary, then we ask for help. Then we say, I can't tie the shoe. I can't hold a baby and a dog and tie my shoe.

We should be doing this for each other, asking for help, answering with help, forcing help on each other when we don't ask for it. Like, this is what we should be doing.

Yeah. I'm aggressively helpful, Meredith.

Yeah. No. That's so true. I literally just had the chills when I was just imagining even that woman because so often you know, I know for me, everyone thinks I'm the strong one and can do it, and they don't ask me if there's anything that they can do to support me because they assume I don't need it. And it's on me, you know, to be vulnerable. Thank goodness I have people in my life like you guys that I do, you know, get to get to be in that in that place with.

So you have shared so many amazing nuggets today. I wish we had all all day to to dig into more, but I I definitely like, my biggest takeaway from this, and it's something that just resonates in in my heart, is that, you know, we can't have regrets. We need to live every day to the fullest and tell the people that we love how much they matter.

And it is more important now than ever because I think with the world changing at rapid speeds, people are feeling a lot of pressure to do, and we need to lean back and just be. And so you get that speed. And so thank you for sharing Mhmm. That time with all of these people that is just so precious. So, Mandy, what about you?

I made some notes, Meredith, and I I want some time in real life with you. Maybe we'll convince you to come to Cabo with us. That would be so fun. Bring it.

But we you know, what what is my priority here? Like, I I feel like that is that verbiage, that specific verbiage. Like, I talk a lot about next right step, but this, what is my priority here is really gonna help me personally focus on the the things that matter most. So thank you for that gift.

And, you know, am I gonna get this right or am I gonna get this human? You know, which one is the thing that matters more? I I loved that and I I'm taking that home with me.

Mhmm. I'm one that matters to us, we talked about, you know, having an ask ready, having a a thing that matters to you, and we at GoBundance Women love to serve those who serve us. So we wanna turn this question around on you, homegirl. You know, what is an introduction or a resource that would change the ballgame for you and things that you're working on so that Kelly and I and every listener, can be out there helping you.

Thank you. Well, I I love speaking. I I love it, and I love being in that way of of taking on a teaching role. So there there are speaking engagements. I would I I love them.

And I would also just say, like, my ask, go out and awkwardly tell people you work with how much they matter. Go out and tell each all day long. You matter to me. I love you. This is great. And and be as generous with one another as we all should be.

And as you both are leading and showing women how to come together, like, thank you for that. Thank you for what you're doing and championing championing that, and I hope all women are going out and doing that for each other. That's the ask.

Tie the shoe. Tie the shoe. Tie the shoe. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I have a good day. I love you. Thank you. Absolutely. And I already have an event that I'm gonna send you. We're actually having a women's wealth symposium down in Dallas, Texas, March. So I'm gonna get a speaker application over to you, and we'll pop that in the show notes for anyone that might be interested in that event too. So, Meredith, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you.

And for all of you listeners all you listeners out there, if this show resonated with you, share it with your friends, leave us a comment, and go check out Power Up Your Life now for all the resources that are there to be able to help you grow your business without sacrifice. So thanks for thanks again for joining us on the Power Up Your Life podcast. We'll see you next time.